Yurnero - The Juggernaut Dota Hero, The guide

Yurnero - The Juggernaut




Table Of Contents

  1. Hero Overview
  2. Skill Overview
  3. Builds Overview
  4. Items Overview
  5. Strategy
  6. Gameplay Walkthrough
  7. Additional Information
  8. Replays
  9. Final Words


1. Hero Overview

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HP: 530
Mana: 182
Damage: 44 - 48
Armor: 4 (19% Damage Reduction)
Move Speed: 295
Range: 100 (Melee)
HP Regeneration: 0.85 HP/sec
Mana Regeneration: 0.57 Mana/sec
Attack Speed: 1.42 (+ 20% IAS)


Pros:
  • Best hero killer.
  • Good farmer/pusher.
  • Good team supporter.
  • Good damage dealer.
  • High damage output during early game.
  • Nice Criticals.
  • A very feared ultimate.

Cons:
  • Low stats gain.
  • Low HP.
  • No stun/disable skill.
  • Hard to play.



2. Skill Overview

Blade Fury [F]

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Causes a bladestorm of destructive force around Yurnero, rendering him immune to magic and dealing damage to nearby enemy units.
Lasts 5 seconds.

Level 1 - Deals 80 damage per second.
Level 2 - Deals 100 damage per second.
Level 3 - Deals 120 damage per second.
Level 4 - Deals 140 damage per second.

Mana Cost: 110
Cooldown: 30 seconds

Author's remarks:-
Your main harassing skill early game. It is a magical attack skill. Meaning that the enemy's basic 25% magic resistance and skills like Omniknight's Repel can reduce and block the damage dealt.

It has very high damage output early game as at level 1 you'll do 400 damage. Doing it twice can kill any hero early game. Plus, it grants you magic immunity when you're using it. So, besides using this skill to hurt your enemy, you can use this to escape nukes and stuns too.

Although you are magically immune while spinning, you can still be hurt by normal attacks. Effects like Stun and Orb effects like Corruption and physical attack skills like Axe's Culling Blade can go through Blade Fury.

At level 4, 1 full Fury = 1 wave of creeps (not if your barrack is down). During mid-late game (level 15 and above), it losses its effect as your main harassing skill but it is still useful for escaping, finishing off low HP heroes and wiping out creeps for farming and Omnislash.

Please note that you CAN do normal attacks to units that CAN'T be hurt by Blade Fury. For example, the enemy towers. Blade Fury can't hurt the enemy towers but Right Clicking them while Juggernaut is spinning makes Juggernaut do normal attacks on them. This aslo apply to denying your own creeps. So when pushing tower, Right Click the tower and Blade Fury so that the tower takes your normal hit damage while the creeps takes your Blade Fury damage for maximum damage output.

Even though Juggernaut CAN'T do normal attack to the enemy that CAN be hurt by Blade Fury, he still can delivers effects and Orb effects that he has like Maim, Corruption, Frost, Mana Burn, Stun and so on. However, it is not recommended that you do so because your Blade Fury would break contact with your enemy.

According to my experience of using Juggernaut, I've found out that Blade Fury starts to lose its power when your enemy's Strength reaches 50 points (950 HP) and above or when your enemy is around level 15 and above.

Besides that, it is also recommended that you stop using Blade Fury if your normal attack damage is more than 105 and you can do normal attack once every second. This is because Blade Fury deals (140 * 5 = 700) damage according to the skill description but magic resistance is not accounted for yet. With magic resistance at 25%, the real damage you would dish out is 700 * 75% = 525 total. If divided by 5 seconds (Blade Fury duration), you would actually be doing 105 damage per second.

So, stop using Blade Fury when your normal attack is higher than 105, especially if you have Blade Dance. Save your Blade Fury for escaping or finishing off opponents and start using Blade Dance as a harassing tool instead.


Healing Ward [G]

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Summons a Healing Ward that heals a nearby units' life.
Lasts 25 seconds.

Level 1 - Heals 1% of hit points per second.
Level 2 - Heals 2% of hit points per second.
Level 3 - Heals 3% of hit points per second.
Level 4 - Heals 4% of hit points per second.

Mana Cost: 140
Cooldown: 75 seconds

Author's remarks:-
This is one of the most effective supporting/healing skills in DotA. It can help you save your teammates and acts as a powerful stick when pushing towers. Each level adds a quarter of healing ability to the ward which means at level 4, it will fully restores your HP in 25 seconds (4% * 25 seconds = 100% HP). At level 4 it can help you tank towers with only minor pain.

The Healing Ward is magically immune like your Blade Fury but it will still take damage from normal attack. With only one hit the ward is gone, so be careful where you put it. The best thing about this ward is that it MOVES! It can follow anyone around just by selecting it and right-clicking on the particular target/location.


Blade Dance [C]

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Yurnero's cunning blade gives him a chance to deal double damage on each attack.

Level 1 - 10% chance.
Level 2 - 18% chance.
Level 3 - 26% chance.
Level 4 - 36% chance.

Cooldown: Passive

Author's remarks:-
"Fixed damage skills are always good for early game while percentage are for late game," and this skill is your main tool for killing during late game. With 36% chance for a Critical to occur, it is considered one of the highest percentages among Critical skills/items available in the game.

You might have heard a lot of people telling you not to put points into this skill early game as your damage is too low, but has it ever crossed your mind that enemy's HP would also be low too? Think about it! Let's say late game it takes you 5 Criticals to finish an enemy, wouldn't it be the same during early game as the damage is proportional with the HP growth? It will still be 5 Criticals to finish your enemy.

Unfortunately even with the reason I just stated, I still recommend you NOT get this skill during early game. Why? It's not because of your attack power, but it's about your HP early game. The matter lies between whether you can deliver those Criticals or not. Juggernaut has incredibly low HP like other heroes early game. So even though you get this skill, you won't be able to touch your enemy because he might have stuns/nukes waiting for you. Besides, creeps might target at you and they hurt a lot during that time.

If you raise this skill early game just for farming then you have a serious problem, learn how to get last hit. With Juggernaut's animation, it's a lot easier to get the last hit on creeps compared to other heroes around.

Please note that when you use Omnislash, the Criticals from Blade Dance can and will occur according to the percentage of each level.


Omnislash [N]

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Quickly move around the battlefield, slashing many enemies. You become invulnerable while Omnislashing.

Level 1 - Attacks 3 times.
Level 2 - Attacks 5 times.
Level 3 - Attacks 8 times.

Range: 575
Mana Cost: 200/275/350
Cooldown: 130/120/110

Author's remarks:-
You become invulnerable and start doing multiple random blink strikes. Each of the strikes or "Normal Slashes" deal 150-250 (fixed) damage and for the first "Normal Slash", Juggernaut will delivers a mini-stun effect.

Each of the "Normal Slashes" is counted as physical attack. Due to this, Omnislash can go through Avatar (Black King Bar, Rage) and Omniknight's Repel.

Moreover, Criticals can occur during Omnislash. So are other effects like Stun, Cleave and Orb effect's like Frost, Corruption, Maim and so on.

In order for those effects to occur during Omnislash, Juggernaut needs a lot of attack speed. With high attack speed, Juggernaut can deal "Additional Slashes".

The "Normal Slashes" are different from the "Additional Slashes". The "Additional Slashes" use Juggernaut normal attack damage instead of the fixed 150-250 from "Normal Slashes". The "Additional Slashes" would be the slashes that will deliver the effects and Orb effects that Juggernaut has.

"Additional Slashes" occur because when Omnislashing, there's a small period of time between each blink strikes where Juggernaut can sneak in a few normal attacks which carry the effect or Orb effect of his own if his attack speed is fast enough.

So, Blade Dance + Attack Speed + Omnislash = DEADLY.



3. Builds Overview

IPB Image The Unstoppable Omnipresence

Introduction
This build is a modified version of the original build called "The Omnipresence". This build is my personal favourite and I use it all the time when I'm playing Juggernaut. It focuses on 3 things, HP, Movement Speed and Attack Speed. Acquiring excessive HP so that the enemy can't outnuke you while you pwn them back when their primary attack skill is cooling down. It's all about what Juggernaut suppose to be, being Unstoppable.

Skill Build:
Level 01: Blade Fury
Level 02: Stats
Level 03: Blade Fury
Level 04: Stats
Level 05: Blade Fury
Level 06: Omnislash
Level 07: Blade Fury
Level 08: Stats
Level 09: Stats
Level 10: Stats
Level 11: Omnislash
Level 12: Blade Dance
Level 13: Blade Dance
Level 14: Blade Dance
Level 15: Blade Dance
Level 16: Omnislash
Level 17: Healing Ward
Level 18: Healing Ward
Level 19: Healing Ward
Level 20: Healing Ward
Level 21~25: Stats

Skill Build Explanations
  • Blade Fury for harassing during early game as it your primary attack spell.
  • 5 levels of Stats for the Mana and HP bonus.
  • Omnislash at each level 6, 11 and 16 to maximize your killing potential.
  • Blade Dance for mid game to do Critical Omnislash.
  • Healing Ward at level 17 and above to help with pushing towers and supporting teammates.

Item Build:
  1. Boots of Speed [500]
  2. Empty Bottle [700]
  3. Circlet of Nobility [185]
  4. Circlet of Nobility [185]
  5. Gauntlets of Strength [150]
  6. Gauntlets of Strength [150]
  7. Bracer Recipe [175] --> Bracer
  8. Bracer Recipe [175] --> Bracer
  9. Boots of Travel Recipe [2200] --> Boots of Travel
  10. Ogre Axe [1000]
  11. Belt of Giant Strength [450]
  12. Sange Recipe [600] --> Sange
  13. Blade of Alacrity [1000]
  14. Boots of Elvenskin [450]
  15. Yasha Recipe [600] --> Yasha
  16. Sange & Yasha Recipe [1000] --> Sange & Yasha
  17. Eaglehorn [3300]
  18. Quarterstaff [1150]
  19. The Butterfly Recipe [1800] --> The Butterfly
Gold Spent: 15770

Additional Items:
  1. Plate Mail [1400]
  2. Hyperstone [2100]
  3. Chain Mail [620]
  4. Assault Cuirass Recipe [2000] --> Assault Cuirass
Total Gold Spent: 21890

What you will get in the end...

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Item Explanations
  • Boots of Speed as start, to harrass with Blade Fury.
  • Empty Bottle to keep you outside fountain ganking 24/7.
  • Bracers to fix the HP problem and also for the Blade Fury-Omnislash combo at level 6.
  • Boots of Travel for chasing and harassing. Teleportation for omnipresence.
  • Sange & Yasha for HP boost and Movement Speed.
  • The Butterfly, for the Attack Speed to deal additional Omnislash and Evasion, so you can sustain longer in battle.
  • Assault Cuirass because of the armor bonus/reduction and attack speed synergizes very well with Omnislash.

Pros:
  • You run extremely fast, with 417 Movement Speed, you can outrun most of the heroes (this has saved my ass lots of time).
  • A lot of HP.
  • Evasion.
  • Mana capacity is sufficient.
  • Teleportation.

Cons:
  • None.


IPB Image The Cookie Cutter

Introduction
This is the most popular and cookie cutter build for Juggernaut around. Everybody is using it, what's there more to say?

Skill Build:
Level 01: Blade Fury
Level 02: Stats
Level 03: Blade Fury
Level 04: Stats
Level 05: Blade Fury
Level 06: Omnislash
Level 07: Blade Fury
Level 08: Stats
Level 09: Stats
Level 10: Stats
Level 11: Omnislash
Level 12: Blade Dance
Level 13: Blade Dance
Level 14: Blade Dance
Level 15: Blade Dance
Level 16: Omnislash
Level 17: Healing Ward
Level 18: Healing Ward
Level 19: Healing Ward
Level 20: Healing Ward
Level 21~25: Stats

Skill Build Explanations
  • Blade Fury for harassing during early game as it your primary attack spell.
  • 5 levels of Stats for the Mana and HP bonus.
  • Omnislash at each level 6, 11 and 16 to maximize your killing potential.
  • Blade Dance for mid game to do Critical Omnislash.
  • Healing Ward at level 17 and above to help with pushing towers and supporting teammates.

Item Build:
  1. Boots of Speed [500]
  2. Empty Bottle [700]
  3. Circlet of Nobility [185]
  4. Circlet of Nobility [185]
  5. Gauntlets of Strength [150]
  6. Gauntlets of Strength [150]
  7. Bracer Recipe [175] --> Bracer
  8. Bracer Recipe [175] --> Bracer
  9. Boots of Travel Recipe [2200] --> Boots of Travel
  10. Sacred Relic [3800]
  11. Radiance Recipe [1525] --> Radiance
  12. Eaglehorn [3300]
  13. Quarterstaff [1150]
  14. The Butterfly Recipe [1800] --> The Butterfly
Gold Spent: 15995

Additional Items:
  1. Ultimate Orb [2250]
  2. Ultimate Orb [2250]
  3. Point Booster [1200]
  4. Eye of Skadi Recipe [1250] --> Eye of Skadi
Total Gold Spent: 22945

What you will get in the end...

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Item Explanations
  • Boots of Speed as start, to harrass with Blade Fury.
  • Empty Bottle to keep you outside fountain ganking 24/7.
  • Bracers to fix the HP problem and also for the Blade Fury-Omnislash combo at level 6.
  • Boots of Travel for chasing and harassing. Teleportation for omnipresence.
  • Radiance for the Immolation, to clear creeps faster for Omnislash.
  • The Butterfly, for the Attack Speed to deal additional Omnislash and Evasion, so you can sustain longer in battle.
  • Eye of Skadi for the Frost effect and stats boost.

Pros:
  • You run very fast.
  • Immolation.
  • Evasion.
  • Mana capacity is sufficient.
  • Teleportation.

Cons:
  • HP is still considered low.
  • There's a higher chance that you'll be focus-fired.


4. Items Overview

Scroll of Town Portal
Due to the nerf of Boots of Travel and Teleport Scrolls to share cooldown, it is no more viable to teleport twice, one back to fountain for healing then one back to the battle field. So you can ignore this item after you get Boots of Travel, but anything before that, it's very useful.

Clarity Potion :: Ring of Basilius
Juggernaut doesn't have fast cooldown skills to spam so Mana Regeneration isn't much needed. Mana capacity is more important. Besides, you have Boots of Travel to teleport back to fountain if you're really dry out of Mana.

Hand of Midas
I will hunt you down and kill you personally if you buy this item. You got Blade Fury, the Transmute is useless! Plus, 75 Mana for a creep 100+ gold? Blade Fury with 110 Mana can do better than that.

Cranium Basher
Only good if you're playing a 1 on 1 match but in a team match, it won't help much. Plus, Juggernaut doesn't have the attack speed to do Perma-Bash.

Maelstrom :: Mjollnir
Good for farming, but not much of a killing weapon. Juggernaut doesn't have the attack speed to trigger it often. Leave it to Troll.

Soul Booster
450 HP bonus and 400 Mana bonus are awesome but this item fails at one thing, it is harder to build up compared to Stats item early game on. Every single point of Stats counts a lot (which is why people usually loads Iron Woodbrach anyway) during early game. Farming up to 1200, 1100 or 1000 makes Juggernaut can't utilise double Fury + Omnislash well before level 7-8.

Helm of Dominator :: Satanic
Nice HP leeching, but they don't offer any speed boost. People usually get these items for Juggernaut as Juggernaut's damage is high during late game but for me, disable/stuns > Lifesteal.

Stygian Desolator
The -6 armor helps a lot in killing the enemy and it's a great synergy for Omnislash but there is no attack speed or any movement speed bonus. Not recommended.

Battle Fury
Lots of Juggernaut users will buy this item as the Cleave helps in farming and the regeneration is great but with a hero like Juggernaut, you don't need it because you have Blade Fury to spam. Moreover, there are no HP and stats boost in it. The HP/Mana regeneration won't save you from ganks and most of all, I don't like the attack animation to be dull and boring.

Black King Bar :: Linken Sphere
Get one of these if you're facing mass stunners and it can't be handled by Blade Fury alone, but most of the time you won't be needing them if you master Juggernaut's Blade Fury well.

Lothar's Edge
The Wind Walk isn't much needed. Some buy this for backstabbing with omnislash and to escape. For me, if you play Juggernaut wisely, you won't be needing this item at all. Yes, it is true that if you cast Blade Fury before Wind Walk, Juggernaut will deal damage while nobody can see you but by the time you make this item, Blade Fury would probably loses it's effectiveness by then.

Buriza-do Kyanon
People usually buy this item for Juggernaut to boost the chances of Criticals but I think 36% is very high and Juggernaut doesn't need it. With 36% chance for a Critical to occur, Juggernaut can do 3 and sometimes 4 Criticals in a row depending on his attack speed. If you buying this for the +75 attack boost, then I suggest you get Monkey King Bar. Attack speed boosts the chances of Critical more than stacking the chances together.

Heart of Tarrasque
You're not a tanker but more of a damage dealer. If your team lacks tanker, then you can get this item and become a fat tank.

Eye of Skadi
The Orb effect is nice but it's rather expensive. Juggernaut has low HP and farming for this would be a little hard. You can buy this if you're extremely rich.

Refresher Orb
Double Omnislash? Mana and creeps are your problem. You have to make sure that your team has a pusher so that he can clear the waves for you to do it twice.

Eul's Scepter of Divinity :: Guinsoo's Scythe of Vyse
More of a disabler, pusher and supporting type of Juggernaut would go for these items, to spam Blade Fury and Healing Ward.

5. Strategy

Now we have come to the most important part of this guide - using Juggernaut. Please note that this is not a Gameplay Walkthrough as I found that Gameplay Walkthrough to be very minor. Instead of feeding you with fishes, I'll teach you how to fish. Teaching someone how to play is more important than telling you what to do. In this section, I'll cover up a few tips and ways to use each of his skill to maximize his potentials.

Mastering the Waves
The first basic thing that you have to learn if you want to become a Juggernaut master is that you'll have to be able to master the waves. Waves, in here means the waves of your creeps and waves of your enemy's creeps. Ever tried to do a Blade Fury-Omnislash combo and you ended up Omnislashing the creeps and can't get any hero kills? Well you should learn this.

First thing that you need to know about waves is that each new waves respawn in a 30 seconds interval. Well to be a wave master, you don't have to count 30 seconds just to be able to know when the creeps will arrive, there's a much more simplier way to master it - the Minimap!

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The minimap tells you a lot of information, like the player's location, who, where and when. Besides that, it also tells you when the enemy's creeps will come. If you look at the images above, I've circled your own waves and your enemy's waves. The key here is too look at your own wave and guess where the enemy's wave is. See the difference?

So next time if you want to Blade Fury and Omnislash, be sure to plan and look at your own creeps on the minimap then guess the enemy's creeps location.

There is another method that you can use if you find it hard to master the waves using minimap, which is to follow one simple rule. ONLY do Blade Fury-Omnislash combo when two new waves meet so that there are space and some time before the next wave comes.

Blade Fury
How to use Blade Fury on enemy? Easy, run up close to them and cast it, then run with them, sticking very close so that your Blade Fury deals all the damage. When running with your target, try NOT to click on the hero and let Juggernaut follows them automatically because Juggernaut will lose contact. So manual positioning/micromanagement is required and recommended.

Blade Fury can be used to:
  • Kill hero early game.
  • Escape from dangereous situation.
  • Finishing a low HP enemy.
  • Clearing creep wave.
Blade Fury is your main harassing tool early game. Since it has very high damage output, casting it twice can just kill anyone.

Because you are Magically Immune while doing Blade Fury, you can use it during escaping.

As the game grows, Blade Fury will become weaker but you can still use it to finish off low HP hero. Instead of hoping for your Critical or Maim to trigger and get stunned while chasing, Blade Fury for the finishing move.

When Blade Fury is Lv.4, 1 Blade Fury = 1 wave of creep (not if your own barrack is down). As it's damage is not that high during mid-late game, you can still use it to wipe out creeps for Omnislash. Besides that, this is also a great farming skill, spam it like hell when you're farming.

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If you're using Blade Fury to farm or to clear out creeps, try to stand in the middle of the wave to make sure that you'll hit everyone.


Each time before you want to use Blade Fury, you must:
  • Consider whether your enemy's Movement Speed is higher than yours or not.
  • Consider whether he can slows, disable, or stuns you.
  • Know when to retreat.
Everytime when you're facing hero who moves faster than you, I would suggest that you just stay back and level up, don't try too hard to kill because you won't know where or when his teammates might come out and get you, but since lots of PROs will always buy surviving items like Ring of Regeneration, stats and some potion first, they won't be able to run fast. So don't worry, you will be able to catch up if you buy Boots of Speed as start.

Movement speed is the key for a successful Blade Fury and if there are anything that can slow you or stop you down, it's BAD. Example of slow and disabling effects are like Frost (Frost Nova, Frost Arrow), Poison (Shadow Strike), Stun (Storm Bolt), Hex, Omniknight's Degen Aura, Naga Siren's Ensnare, Purge and so on. Most of them can be countered if you train yourself on timing. Blade Fury first before your enemy can cast any slow or disabling effects on you and he's dead. As for Degen Aura from Omniknight, you can't do anything about since it's an Aura so I recommend you change lane or just stay behind and farm.

Out of all the disabling skill, there are two skills that are very unique which are the Naga Siren's Ensnare and Medusa's Purge. They can go through Blade Fury even when you're spinning, you can still be trapped and slowed. For Ensnare's case, after Juggernaut is being trapped, you will still continue spinning until the 5 seconds end but if he's stupid enough to come close and hit you, bye bye for him. For Purge's case, you will be slowed when the enemy used Purge when you are spinning, but if you use Blade Fury after he Purged you, the Purge will gone away, restoring your speed.

Try to practice Blade Fury a lot and get used to the 5 seconds duration because 5 seconds is really short and sometimes if you don't get out of the wave in time, you'll get stunned and owned back. Always know when is the right time to retreat.

When you use Blade Fury, your enemy will either:
  • Run in a straight line.
  • Run around his creeps.
  • Run before you even start spinnning.
  • Time the 5 seconds of Blade Fury for you.
If you use Blade Fury and your enemy runs in a straight line, you can be sure that he's a noob, but there are some who do fake noobing, turning 180 degree as soon as you feel comfortable following them. Always be alert, don't judge your enemy just too fast.

There are some experienced player who will try to run around the creeps instead of running away in a straight line when you're doing Blade Fury on them. If you can, try to guess his position and follow him around. Depending on what hero you're facing, if he's a non-stunner continue doing normal attacks if his life is lower than yours after you Blade Fury him, but if he's a stunner, run before he stuns you. When you're doing normal attacks after Blade Fury, he might run away from creeps, so this is the time to finish him off with Omnislash. There will be some times where your Blade Fury can't follow him around, you should stop chasing and use your Blade Fury on the creeps and earn some money instead.

If you're facing enemy who is waiting to run as soon as you are running up to them to do Blade Fury, you can always use the scare technique and try to trick them. Try running up to them, and when they are starting to run, chase a little but stay close to the creep fight. Then run back like telling him "Okay, I'll fall back," and as soon as he turns, chase him back and Blade Fury! If his reaction is fast enough and starts to run again, double trick him back, keep on teasing him back and forth. Chase then back off then chase again. One thing to be careful of about this trick is to know when to fall back after chasing. This is because he might nuke you while you were turning back. Try not to tease a lot since he might be scared to farm/hit the creeps and this will causes you to push too far until you reach his tower which will leave you no space to do Blade Fury in the end.

Another kind of pro player will try to run away from the creeps and then go back the to creep fight. They time the Blade Fury's 5 seconds for you and trick you into chasing him so that your Blade Fury is far away from the creeps and doesn't hurt them. Then by the time your 5 second ends, you're back in his trap full of healthy creeps and get owned back instead. Some of them might be stunners so the alternative for this is to chase but not following him back to his creeps when your Blade Fury is ending. Instead, go to the side routes/forest and run back safely to your creeps. Running back to your creeps might be far but it's worth it if you're alive. Anyway, this rarely happens and you can also prevent this from happening by making sure that every time before you want to cast a Blade Fury, check and see whether your creeps outnumber his and also only do Blade Fury when 2 new waves meet.

Healing Ward
Healing Ward is a very strong supporting stick. During late game, just plug it in a safe place and start owning. It's like telling your opponents "I'll own you in 25 seconds (ward's duration),". With the cooldown nerfed longer (75 seconds) unlike the old 50 seconds cooldown, you can now only plug the ward during critical moments. You can't spam it like old times.

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So basically, what is the right time to put the ward? What is the critical moments that you mean? Critical moments that I mean here would be when you're pushing with your teammates, taking out towers, and most importantly - saving your teammates. How to save? Let's assume that he has been Ruptured (Blood Seeker's ultimate), tell him to hold, and plug your Ward in; or let's say your team mate has 200HP left and he's been Doomed (Doom Bringer), put a ward and heal him, instead of seeing him running like mad back to fountain.

Another critical moments here is when you and your teammates start team battling. Don't try to plug it too soon as they might just be nuking/poking each other around just to lower each sides HP so always try to make sure that it is the real deal/real teambattle before you plug your ward in.

Next is where to put the ward? Normally, most Juggernaut player will put the ward behind Juggernaut and start slashing, some put it in the forest so no one can kill the ward, while I personally like the ward to follow me around. It all depends on the situation, and if you pushed a mass wave of creeps, put the ward behind them since they will help to block the enemy from getting to your ward.

Some smart enemies will try to destroy your Healing Ward first when they see you plug the ward in so try to train yourself to always put your ward in the safest place or try to put it in the maximum distance between you and your teammates so that even your enemies try to get your ward first, they'll have to move up to destroy it thus giving you time for a couple of attacks and maybe some precious criticals.

Omnislash
Omnislash is a very powerful ultimate if you target it on a single enemy or on multiple enemies who are each low on HP. Since Omnislash is random, you can't control who you want to slash except for the first slash. So one important thing you must always remember before you want to do Omnislash is figures. Check whether there are 2 or more enemy units around. If you're planning to kill someone, be sure to confirm that he's alone before you execute it so that he takes all the slashes. Mastering the waves is the most important aspect here if you want to perfect your Omnislash.

Another way to do Omnislash without involving the creeps is to trick your enemy to somewhere alone. Try to act noob and run up to him to let him nuke you a bit then try to trick them by running away into the nearest forest or to the river and when both of you are alone, Omnislash and finish him off.

You can also use scare tactic to do Omnislash. Run up to your enemy making them think that you're casting your Blade Fury (but you're not) and when they run far enough from their creeps, Omnislash. To pull this trick successfully, you must make sure that your enemy is afraid of you and your Blade Fury. So be sure to land a couple of Blade Fury so that he knows the power of your Blade Fury and afraid of it. This trick is very useful if you're facing chicken shit player or invisible heroes.

There are five ways to counter Omnislash which is to:
  • become Invisible (Wind Walking, etc.)
  • outnumbering Juggernaut (Creeps, Illusions, etc.)
  • blink away
  • enter Fog of War
  • increase armor
To counter invisible unit, you can try to use the scare tactic mentioned. Scare them off with a couple of Blade Fury first. Then try to trick them into wasting their invisible skill later on by running up to them making them think that you're going to Blade Fury again. If they're dumb enough to come out of the invisibility when their skill still haven't finish cooling down yet for another Wind Walk, finish them off. If they're smart, try get wards or gem. There are some permanant invisible heroes that you should watch out like Stealth Assasin and Broodmother, don't do Omnislash on them unless you have a Sentry Ward or a Gem because they turn back invisible so fast that you won't have enough time to even finish your Omnislash.

As for being outnumbered, how well you use your Blade Fury is the key to counter it. When facing illusions, try to Blade Fury the illusions first since illusions takes 200/300% more damage, they'll die fast, then Omnislash. If you're opponent is toying around with you by running around the creeps, never mind, wipe out the creeps and do some damage to him first to make sure later that your Omnislash kills.

In the old version, if you cast Omnislash on heroes like Anti-Mage or any Blink/Teleporting hero, you'll blink with them and finish your Omnislash on the Blinked/Teleported spot, but I believe that it is fixed on the later version. Currently, if you do Omnislash when a person is using Blink, Omnislash will cancel off leaving you go "wtf?". So to counter Blink, you can always try to count the 5 seconds cooldown. Only cast Omnislash after the hero has just Blinked, because he will have to wait another 5 seconds to blink again and I'm sure Omnislash would be finish by then. There are times where your Omnislash might still continue even if your enemy used Blink. This is either your enemy blinked too short and he is still within Omnislash range and Juggernaut's vision or he blinked within the period of another blink strike (Thanks to who_am_i for this information).

Now fog of war is something that rarely happens but it happens. It happens between the second where your enemy is running into the fog of war and you are casting your Omnislash. For your information, after you clicked Omnislash and selected your target, it will takes 1 second duration for you to turn half-invisible and invulnerable before you start blinking to your enemy and begin slashing. So, if your enemy runs into the fog of war during the 1 second period, you'll only blink in front of him and only do 1 slash. So watch out for high grounds, turning points, corners, trees and night time before you cast Omnislash. Make sure you have a clear view.

As you know, Omnislash is counted as physical attack so armor damage reduction are counted in, this means your Omnislash damage will be reduced as your enemy's armor goes higher. The hero you should watch out for this is Omniknight's Guardian Angel (ultimate). When you see Omniknight casted Guardian Angel, it's best that you wait until it finishes before you Omnislash because with enemies having 1000 armor, you might end up not doing any damage at all. Even though armor is not much of a counter (except for Omniknight), it's still a problem late game because everyone will get about 50% damage reduction from Stats bonus and so on and it really reduces your Omnislash performance. You have no choice but to put a couple of Criticals on your enemy before you do Omnislash to make sure a KILL.

Lots of people might not know this but Omnislash goes through Avatar, so getting Black King Bar is not an option. Besides that, Omnislash also goes through Omniknight's Repel. So, it's always funny for me to see people shouting "For Khaz Modan!" and die in the end.

Hero Killing and Combos
Hero killing is pretty much easy since you have 5 straight and easy combo:
  • Blade Fury-Omnislash combo - Good for countering stunner/nuker/slower/illusions heroes.
  • Omnislash-Blade Fury combo - Good for countering invisible/blink heroes.
  • Defensive Blade Fury-Omnislash combo - Good for countering ultimates.
  • Double Fury
  • Half Fury
The Blade Fury-Omnislash combo is pretty easy. Just run up to your enemy and Blade Fury him, if he runs far away from the crepps, Omnislash and he's dead. If you're facing high HP heroes, try to put 2 Blade Fury on him before you Omnislash just to confirm a sure kill.

As for the Omnislash-Blade Fury combo, it's very good for killing invisible heroes or heroes that are far away from you while chasing. Treat Omnislash like a Blink Strike. There is one small difficulty when doing this combo which is to cast Blade Fury right after you finish Omnislashing so that your Blade Fury stays in contact. Try to spam your 'F' button (Blade Fury) when you are Omnislashing so that Blade Fury starts as soon as Omnislash finishes. Be sure to move with your enemy as soon as your Blade Fury starts activating. REMEMBER, this combo cannot be used on people who has high movement speed than you and always, make sure that it's a SURE KILL when you use this combo. Otherwise, you'll end up chasing your enemy and die along the way.

Even with these two strong combo, there are times that you can't and mustn't execute them correctly. For example, if you're facing Sand King, try to save your Blade Fury, let him do the first move, he Burrowstrikes you and starting to cast Epicenter, Blade Fury first before his Epicenter starts so that his ultimate goes useless (Epicenter can't hurt you when you're doing Blade Fury). When he starts to run away, chase and finish him off with Omnislash. This is the Defensive Blade Fury-Omnislash combo.

Like I said, Blade Fury is very powerful early game. With good timing and management, you should be able to get First Blood very easily. There are two ways to get First Blood. The first one is Double-Fury. Blade Fury is very strong and it is recommended that you start using it when it's level 2. Do it twice/trice to your enemy and it's First Blood. One downsize of it is that you will need good mana management. With Boots of Speed as start like I suggested in the Item Builds, you should only have enough mana to only do Blade Fury maximum 3 times until level 5/6 without any Stats item. One thing to be careful of when doing the Double-Fury technique is not to go too aggresive on your first Blade Fury. This is because if you damaged your enemy too much with the first Blade Fury, he might go back to base and heal. Depending on your enemy's item, disconnect your Blade Fury when his HP is left about 1/2 or 1/3 (if he has any Ring or Potion). Always make sure that he won't have the urge to heal his HP back after your first Blade Fury.

Unfortunately, there are times where your enemies might use potion to heal their HP back, so even by the time your Blade Fury finishes cooling down to do the second Blade Fury, their HP already gone back full again. So can you still get First Blood? Yes. The second trick here is to deliver a couple of normal attacks to lower his HP to 3/4 or 1/2 before you Blade Fury him to death. This trick only takes one Blade Fury. It's good if you're facing low HP hero like Bone. Hit your enemy 2-3 times then Blade Fury. As you all know, when you click on enemy's hero, his creeps will start aiming at you. So try to do the attacks when his creeps is fewer/outnumbered. If you're standing far away from him, run up close then click on him to attack. Don't click on him when you're far away letting your hero auto chase and hit because the creep starts aiming at you BY THE TIME YOU CLICKED ON THE HERO, NOT BY THE TIME YOU HIT THE HERO. Minimize your damage taken so that you'll have enough HP to survive your Blade Fury.

Note: If you're planning to get First Blood, try to make sure that you have FULL HP and keep avoid being nuke/harassed. If your HP is left half the bar, your hope for First Blood is gone because normal attacks should be enough to kill you, even when you are doing Blade Fury.

Your major problem comes during late game because of Blade Fury is no longer powerful. So, how well you kill during early game and how well you farm during mid game determines your late game performance. You should stop your hero killing and start farming around level 15 so that you're well prepared for late game.

After using the Omnipresence for so long, I find myself hard to deliver those normal attacks to the enemy because there are lots of stunners, nukers and so on, you can't barely touch them. Moreover, you don't have any disable/stun skills. So your main keys here is your Healing Ward and the Butterfly's evasion. Without Butterfly, you are nothing but a bug that can be easily squashed. Plus, your HP is very low. The Butterfly's Evasion helps a lot for you to survive and sustain in battles, but if you screwed up your early-mid game and can't farm 3400 for Eaglehorn, I would suggest you go for +10 Plate Armor. Believe me, it helps a lot.

Surviving and Escaping
Juggernaut is as fragile as Bone and Nevermore. To survive is pretty hard as you don't have any disable/stun skill. So how to survive in-game? Easy, just be smart, if you're farming, always keep an eye on the minimap, when enemy disappears, hide yourself in the fog of war or go farm natural creeps and if you have Boots of Travel, teleport to the other lane and continue farming.

If you're having team battle, try to stay back and learn what is the right time for you to engage in battle. One useful tips when you're involving in team battle is that you want yourself to be difficult to be selected. Try not to get too much attention and sneak in the battle. If you're "naked" or everybody starts to aim you, it's bad. Try to run back out of their range when they starts to target you and then go back when they stop hitting you but aiming at your teammates.

If you're fighting 1 on 1, know what he has and what skills/combo he's going to use, find ways to counter him back and kill him along the way. One important aspect that can turn the tides when doing 1 on 1 is the creeps. Even a hero which is 2-3 levels lower than his enemy can still win the battle if there are more creeps around. So, make sure you have the creep advantage when engaging, don't run in blindly.

To escape from dangerous situation is not hard, but depending on when you starts to escape. As Juggernaut has low HP, I would suggest you start running away when you're HP is left half the bar. Always remember that if your HP is left half the bar = you don't have any HP at all. Keep having this kind of logic, because with only half bar of HP, you'll only left around 700-1000 HP left so 1 ultimate like Laguna Blade, Finger of Death, etc. should be able to kill you. To escape from dangerous situation, just Blade Fury and starts running.

There are times when you're escaping, enemy's hero like Bone or Bounty Hunter will chase after you to finish you off. Don't worry and just run, if he comes out, Omnislash him and he should be dead.

Another good way to escape is to use the Blade Fury-Teleporting technique. If you have a Boots of Travel, cast Blade Fury first and then use Teleport. With magic immunity from Blade Fury, enemy can't cancel your teleportation. One thing to remember when pulling off this combo is to cast Teleport fast right after Blade Fury. Blade Fury's duration is 5 seconds while Teleport duration is 4 seconds. So, it is better for you to teleport before the Blade Fury ends, or else the enemy might stuns you in the last seconds. One note about this combo is that Stuns from normal attack or the Knockback from Spirit Breaker will cancel your teleport.

Team Play
Remember, Juggernaut's role is to kill heroes, deal damage and be a chaser while supporting your team with Healing Ward and pushing with Blade Fury.

During early game, your role is to gank. After you get Boots of Travel, you should teleports to other lane and kill the enemy. Besure to push the creeps far up to the enemy's tower so that they'll have figure out where you are. Besure to warn your teammates that you're coming. Discuss how both of you can combo.

When there are team battle, try to let your teammates enter the battle first. When the time is right, plug the Healing Ward in and then start entering the battle. Target low HP heroes and if any of them trying to run away, chase and Omnislash.

When taking out towers or barracks together, plug your Healing Wards in to heal your teammate. At late game, it helps your teammate to tank the damage from the enemy.

If your side is pushing, you can always help to clear out the creeps faster with Blade Fury when there is no pusher around in your team. If there are any pusher in your team, then save your Blade Fury later for escaping.

Heroes to Avoid/Good Allies
There's only ONE hero that you should avoid, Omniknight. Each and every single of his skills is designed to counter you. His Purification, Repel and Degen Aura can be used to counter your Blade Fury and his Guardian Angel makes your Omnislash goes WTF?

There is also another hero that you should be careful of ONLY DURING early game, which is Lich. Just stay behind and don't try to kill this guy. His frost hurts. Just stay behind and farm. Get regeneration items like Tangos/Flask and stay behind until you're level 6. If you're desperate to get some kill, go to other lane and kill. You can only kill Lich when you have your Omnislash.

Basically every hero is good if paired up with Juggernaut but I recommend you solo a lane since it's better, but if you really paired up with someone, tell him about your situation and discuss on how both of you can combo. Any stunners or slower would be great to pair up with early game. As for late game, it's good to have pushers on your side like Keeper of the Light, Sniper with Scattershot build, and Death Prophet so that you can Omnislash. Always tell them to clear the creeps first before your side enters gangbang so that your side will have the creep advantage.

Own or be owned
This is the famous quote of every ownage technique. It means kill your enemy before they kill you. Owning is, of course, better before you got owned but do you know that sometimes it can lead to death and causes disaster? As you all know, DotA is a team game and with only a person dominating the game alone is just WRONG. After all my times of playing DotA, I learnt one important lesson - sometimes it is better to run away then killing a person.

I had a lot of matches with Juggernaut getting very powerful and outleveled everyone early game but I lost at the end of the match. I asked why and I started to blame my teammates for being a noob and costing me the match. But as I play and play and watched those replays, I realised that there was nothing wrong with my teammates at all. They were playing fine all the time and it was then that I realised that the problem lies in ME.

Like I said a lot of times in this guide, Juggernaut is very powerful early game but loses his ability during mid game and gain it back after late game. I also told you that I dominate a lot of early games and my teammates are also playing very well, so what was the matter actually? Well it's all because of me, DYING.

I know you would said "But you said you are owning,". Yes I'm owning but owning alone is not enough, you need to own with your teammates. Plus, I do die too, once in a while after a period of owning (mostly mid game when Juggernaut is weak). But by dying ONCE, the opposing side can grow strong. Stronger than my teammates and this allows them to kill and win back my side.

What I'm trying to tell you here is that when you are outleveling everyone, don't die and feed. Even one death counts a level or two or maybe an ultimate between level 5 and level 6 for your enemies and your teammates. So, don't be too obsess about owning and get owned in the end. RUN when you can because A KILL IS NOT WORTH A DEAD. Even when ganking, try to survive and tell your teammate to protect you because you feed A LOT by just dying once. ONCE!

Prevent yourself from getting owned and owning the match with your teammates is the right thing to do. Don't try to dominate the match alone too much. Play safe.



6. Gameplay Walkthrough

I hate gameplay walkthrough but just to let you have a CLEAR PICTURE of what to do, here goes.

Early Game - Level 1~6
Get a Boots of Speed and go to your lane. Get level 1 Blade Fury and wait. First wave come, follow behind, and when battle begins, stay behind and just hold there, get last hit and deny experience if you want. Try not to get nuked if you're doing last-hit-farming and run back if your creeps are cleared and continue doing this until you reach your own tower, if your enemy doesn't deny you, you would be level 2-3 now. If you have reach level 3, you should have level 2 Blade Fury, now let the killing begins. Stop leeching and hugging your tower and run out to do Blade Fury. Your enemy would have half his HP gone if you pull this right.

After your tower cleared the creeps, the wave will be pushed back up, let them come back again and do Blade Fury to get First Blood or a kill. Note that you can only pull out this trick if your enemy is not a slower or an Omniknight (Degen Aura). If he's a stunner try to time your Blade Fury, active it first before he stuns you. If he has potion and regenerated his HP back, do the trick I mentioned above, do a couple of normal hits before Blade Fury to own.

Remember to always do Blade Fury at your tower so that you'll have enough space to chase. Always wait until you have level 2 Blade Fury before you start harassing, since it'll be a waste of mana to use it at level 1. If creeps aim at your tower, never mind. If your tower is down, never mind because you can farm even better after your tower is down.

After you reach level 5 or level 6, go back to get some stats item so you'll have enough mana for Blade Fury-Omnislash combo.

Author's remarks:-
Juggernaut is a solo hero because if you paired with someone, he might push so hard that you don't have the space to do Blade Fury early on, but if you really/need to pair with someone, try to talk to him about your situation and tell him not to push too hard but get last hit on creeps. I like top lane the most and I always solo there. I would always be happy if I'm facing 2 heroes since it's more challenging and sometimes I get Double Kill or First Blood, because with Juggernaut, you just CAN.

Early Mid Game Level 7~11
This is the part where you do most of your hero killing, if you kill or farm enough, you should be able to get a Boots of Travel at level 8 or level 9. You can try helping your teammates and gank their lanes after that, since Teleport saves a lot of time. Just besure to inform your teammate that you're coming and ask if he has any skill to combo. One important tips is before you teleport to other lanes, try to push your creeps up to enemy's tower so that the enemy have to figure out whether you have retreated and waiting for the creeps to be pushed back or... Teleported to other lane and ganking his teammate!

Author's remarks:-
If you're soloing on a lane, try not to take down the enemy's tower so fast because you need to farm. I don't get it why people like to take down the tower as soon as possible because you see, if the enemy's tower is down, your creeps will have to travel further more just to get killed and have the wave pushed back again. Besides, if you pushed across the river, you're ENTERING the enemy's territory which is dangerous, you are an easy target for ganking. So to maximize your farming, push but don't take down the tower, if you push and reached the enemy's tower, go hunt natural creeps or teleport ganking, then back to push again. If your own tower is down, great! Even better for farming!

Mid Game Level 12~16
This is the part where you should start your farming for your Sange & Yasha. Try farming at side lanes and spam those Blade Fury. If enemies disappear from the minimap, teleport to the other side lane and continue farming. You can take out enemy towers if you want to get the tower money. Try to farm Sange as fast as possible because this is the time where team battle usually starts and when it does happen, you'll get a lot of focus fire because the opposing team wants some revenge on you on early game pwnage. Sange helps you to survive Blade Fury in team battle. After you got Yasha, you can also help your team to chase low HP hero and even use Omnislash to finish them off.

Author's remarks:-
Even though I have been playing Juggernaut for so long, I always find myself lazy to farm during this time since I'm too obsessed with killling people and this really ruins my late game, so whatever you do, FARM!

Late Game Level 17~25
After you got your The Butterfly, Juggernaut DPS would be ugly right now. When team battle occurs during this time, you don't need to use Blade Fury anymore but save it for escaping. Plug a Healing Ward and sneak in to attack. Target low HP heroes. Deal as much damage as possible with Blade Dance and escape or finish off low HP hero with Blade Fury, Omnislash if there are no creeps around. If your team don't have any pusher, you can help out by using Blade Fury to clear the creeps. Healing Ward when pushing towers or barrack. Remember, your job is to deliver the most damage output, chase low HP heroes and be a great pusher.

Author's remarks:-
For me, in DotA, early game is all about who has the most Mana to harass, mid game is about farming and late game is about who has the strongest items. If you follow everything like I said, you should be owning.



7. Additional Information

Does Blade Fury loses Movement Speed when it's on?
No.

How does Omnislash actually works?
Okay I've ran a test just to confirm how it actually works and these were the results that I got.
  • Omnislash deals a small ministun for the first slash.
  • Omnislash deals a random damage of 150-250 per original slash.
  • Boosting Juggernaut's attack damage won't add any extra damage to each of the original slashes.
  • Attack speed will give Juggernaut additional slashes.
  • Additional slashes are different from the original slashes.
  • Additional slashes use your attack damage instead of the fixed random 150-250 damage.
  • Effects (Stun, Critical) and Orb Effect (Frost, Maim, Corruption and so on) WILL TRIGGER ONLY THROUGH the additional slashes made and not through Omnislash itselfs.
Okay here's a small 8 minutes test replay.

Attached File Omnislash_Test.w3g ( 34.65k )

Boots of Travel or Power Treads?
Some people said that Boots of Travel is a waste of money for the Juggernaut, it doesn't prepare Juggernaut for mid game and it doesn't add any stats for 2200 gold. I agree with it but I still think Boots of Travel is essential for Juggernaut. According to my research, there are actually more than half of all the heroes in DotA that has movement speed higher than Juggernaut. Personally, I am able to get Boots of Travel at level 10-11 and by that time, people will have Power Treads. With Boots of Travel, it really makes sure that I outrun them. Besides, Blade Fury will still be powerful for 5-6 more levels to come. Moreover, if you take a close look at my skill build, I focus on normal attacks after I get my Blade Dance which is after level 11. So, I build my items directly proportional with my skills.

As for Power Treads, it's great too and I would suggest you get it, if and only if there are no heroes in the map that can outrun you or you have stunners/disabler in your team to support you.

List of heroes that has Movement Speed higher than 290.
Morning Tavern:
  1. Vengeful Spirit - 295
  2. Lord of Olympia - 295
  3. Enchantress - 295
  4. Rogueknight - 295
  5. Naga Siren - 320
  6. Stealth Assassin - 300
  7. Lone Druid - 305
  8. Slayer - 300
Sunrise Tavern:
  1. Treant Protector - 300
  2. Keeper of the Light - 305
  3. Ursa Warrior - 310
  4. Ogre Magi - 295
  5. Tinker - 305
  6. Prophet - 300
  7. Holy Knight - 300
Dawn Tavern:
  1. Beastmaster - 310
  2. Alchemist - 300
  3. Priestess of the Moon - 300
  4. Storm Spirit - 310
  5. Sacred Warrior - 300
  6. Templar Assassin - 305
  7. Faerie Dragon - 295
Light Tavern:
  1. Moon Rider - 320
  2. Bristleback - 295
  3. Pandaren Battlemaster - 300
  4. Centaur Warchief - 300
  5. Bounty Hunter - 315
  6. Anti-Mage - 320
  7. Drow Ranger - 300
  8. Omniknight - 300
Midnight Tavern:
  1. Soul Keeper - 320
  2. Tormented Soul - 300
  3. Lich - 295
  4. Magnataur - 315
  5. Chaos Knight - 325
  6. Lycanthrope - 295
  7. Broodmother - 315
  8. Phantom Assassin - 310
Evening Tavern:
  1. Gorgon - 300
  2. Night Stalker - 295
  3. Skeleton King - 300
  4. Doom Bringer - 300
  5. Nerubian Assassin - 300
  6. Slithereen Guard - 300
  7. Queen of Pain - 300
  8. Bone Fletcher - 300
  9. Faceless Void - 300
  10. Netherdrake - 300
  11. Lighting Revenant - 295
  12. Lifestealer - 295
Twilight Tavern:
  1. Oblivion - 315
  2. Tidehunter - 310
  3. Bane Elemental - 305
  4. Spirit Breaker - 295
  5. Shadow Fiend - 300
  6. Sand King - 300
  7. Blood Seeker - 305
  8. Lord of Avernus - 295
Dusk Tavern:
  1. Spectre - 295
  2. Witch Doctor - 305
  3. Obsidian Destroyer - 300
  4. Warlock - 295
  5. Geomancer - 300
  6. Shadow Priest - 305
  7. Pit Lord - 305
  8. Undying - 310
  9. Dark Seer - 305
Total: 67 heroes



10. Replays

Attached File 6.48_juggernaut_thesecret.w3g ( 677.8k ) Number of downloads: 1315

Hasn't been playing DotA for months. Feels good to be playing Juggernaut back again. Check it out, I was too eager to kill the new hero that I nearly got killed sometimes. I did't know the skills of Faerie Dragon yet in the replay.

--------------------
Attached File 6.43b_juggernaut_veryfastgame.w3g ( 1.3mb ) Number of downloads: 3232

This replay is a good example of owning alone is just not enough. It's a very intense game where my side lost the middle barracks early game. I was owning but my teammate just wasn't, until I told Trent and Crystal Maiden to combo. With that we managed to hold on until we were strong enough to push back.


9. Final Words

There you have it, all my knowledge and experience about Juggernaut. This is my second guide and I've done it long time ago when DotA-Allstars forum was down. I kept it until the forum is back and w00t! It's fresh! I would like to thank Juggernaut for his great Omnipresence guide which helped me a lot. You might find some similarities of my guide with his, this is because I'm using some of his layout/format and if there's any grammar mistake or any wrong points, feel free to point them out. I accept any critisms but please eleborate on your disagreement so that it can be discussed. Oh and on the scale of 1 to 10, what do you think? Thank you for reading.



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